The Trap of Wanting Yesterday's Experience
La trampa de querer la experiencia de ayer
A student describes a powerful experience of selflessness and asks how to reconcile the clarity of that glimpse with the return of ordinary, seemingly false experience.
The Trap of Wanting Yesterday's Experience
A student describes a powerful experience of selflessness and asks how to reconcile the clarity of that glimpse with the return of ordinary, seemingly false experience.
Yesterday I had one of these extraordinary experiences that I can never quite describe. I've had moments like this before, but this was another level. The best way I could sum it up is that there was totally no "me." Obviously something was still there to experience, but it had nothing to do with me. And there was this deep sense of terror, which is of course this idea of "me" that doesn't want to let go. But there was also this deep pain: reality is nothing, not even close to what I've been experiencing.
Because there was this terror and I was open to it, feeling it, not resisting it, whatever was still holding on eventually let go, and the experience shifted. It was like, "Okay, I'm back in this normal way of experiencing," which felt false. Everything is a lie. That used to be really sad and depressing when I would have these glimpses. It would feel like I just have to go back to life, lying and pretending, when I already know this is all a dream. There's no one here to talk to. Nothing I'm saying makes any sense.
That's not depressing anymore. Maybe it's more of an integrated understanding. But after this experience, there was still a sense of, "Yeah, it's a bummer." And then when I saw that, there was a knowing: it's always here. It's always like this. Then some kind of integration happened where it felt like that depth of seeing was woven into my normal feeling of "I'm here." It's impossible to describe, but whatever this integrated thing was, it was very beautiful and total. I'm here, but I'm not doing anything. Everything is just happening on its own.
I've had experiences of seeing through the doer before, and even beyond formal experience, in my daily reality I can see that there's no one here and no doer. But there's still a sense of a doer. In this experience, even that sense was gone, and it was so beautiful.
Then even that integrated experience shifted. It's still here, and there's an ability to shift out of this sense of a "me" doing anything. But it's strange that I can shift back and forth, and that there's still this mechanism wanting to believe that I'm doing and thinking.
So my first question is: is this how you're experiencing? Is this what people who have gone all the way experience? Because this is a completely different reality. And then when I had this integrated experience, it felt like, "No, I think this is more what people are experiencing." But I don't think you can even answer because you don't know what my experience is.
You describe your experience, and it's hard for me to really know what it is. The question is asking for some kind of validation, and I really can't trust myself to do that because I can't truly know what you are experiencing. It would be more helpful if you phrased a question that's related to you, to what the actual problem is, rather than asking me to compare my experience based on your description. That's tricky for me.
Yeah, that makes sense. Ultimately, it's just going to happen as it happens, so I don't even really know what to ask.
What's moving you to speak, to share, to ask right now? The question is in the essence of what's moving you to speak.
What's really being asked
I think the essence that moves me to speak is the classic dynamic of: "Oh my gosh, I had this incredible seeing, and now it's not here," even though I know it's here.
And you want to go back to it. That kind of thing.
I want to refine that, because I've had enough of this. It's not about going back. It's about this sense of doer. I would like to finally see through that.
But you have seen through it, right?
I have seen through it. So then, okay, let me say this. Before this experience, I felt really at peace and rooted in this sense that nothing needs to change. I'm seeing through everything. There is an appearance of a "me." I'm seeing it. It doesn't bother me. It doesn't touch my peace. It doesn't touch my true self. So it's all good. Maybe it goes, maybe it doesn't. I really felt at peace with this.
And then this glimpse was like, "Oh no, there's a lot more." And you had also said something about being a hair away from a huge leap. So that got into my head: "Oh, that's what he's talking about. This is the huge leap, and it's just this 'me' that isn't here." So then there's a wanting to have this thing that it sounds like you're saying I haven't had yet, and then this experience confirms that I haven't fully inhabited it.
What did you see that is true now?
The question back to you is: what did you see that is true now? And only true now because you know it and you see it to be true now, not from a memory. If you speak from the memory, you will say what you've been saying: "I've seen through the fact that there is no me, but there is a me now. I know there isn't because I saw it yesterday, but now I don't see it. I know it's not about going back, but right now I don't see it." So what did you see that is true now?
Yeah, it's the same. There's no one here. There's no one doing anything. Maybe "the same" isn't accurate because there's some kind of depth that I don't know is here. But there is an experience of everything just happening. And then there's also experience of thought that wants to claim what's happening.
What did you see yesterday that is true now?
Non-dual.
And so, what, if anything, is the problem now?
If I would say there's a problem, I would say it's that there is an appearance of someone doing. I can shift attention away from that if I look closely, but if I'm not paying attention, then it's just automatic: these thoughts are doing, and so on.
Believing you are the thoughts of doing
Let's take that slowly. The problem is there's an appearance of somebody doing. Is that what you said?
More accurately, there's thought that's claiming doership, and then there's a belief in the thought until I stop and look. Then it's see-through.
And the problem is that if you don't pay attention, you believe that you are the thoughts of doing.
Exactly. It's running on automatic.
What would you expect would happen if you stopped believing that?
It would feel like how it felt yesterday.
There you go. We wanted to go back to yesterday. Caught you.
Or either to yesterday, or to you telling me it's different, or another teacher telling me it's different. The comparison thought. Yeah. So, thought.
See how sneaky that is.
The subtle rejection of what is
You're attaching to a memory of an experience, and you're rejecting the current experience, comparing it to a memory. An interpretation comparing itself to the memory of an interpretation of an experience. And then using that to compare to this, to what is now, to the mystery of this, and saying it has to be different. It would be better if this moment were like yesterday. And who is wanting that?
Yeah, that's the whole joke. The one that's wanting it is the thing I'm trying to get rid of.
Just notice, because you're able to recognize it. You used your understanding to say, "Well, I don't really want to go back to yesterday. I know that's not the way." So then it comes in through the back door, which is: something's not quite right with what is now. You're judging what's appearing now, comparing it to yesterday. Just notice the subtle rejection of what is. That's the source of the wanting it to be like yesterday. It's not just a judgment. It's the taking of a position that you know how it should be.
Yeah, and that was the whole thing that led to this experience yesterday. I noticed I was taking a position, and I stopped.
Yes.
This is really beautiful. This is so true. Because as long as I'm not having any concept of what it should be, right.
That which knows how things should be is identification. That's the root of identification: "I know this should not be how it is," in some way. That's taking a position. It's saying, "I am the one knowing that this should not be how it is."
The spiritual exception
It's so clear with everything else. But the spiritual category is like, "Oh no, that's real though. That's acceptable for me to want to change this experience."
That's the spiritual ego. Some people have it with money, some people have it with social status, attention. Some people have it with spiritual progress.
Well, I have it with all of them too. I just see it. I'm like, "Okay, yeah, that's fear about money." I see it come up and it's fine. Or it's not fine, but even if it's not fine, it's okay.
One thing is fear about something. I'm referring specifically to the ambition, the sense that "I'm okay only if I'm progressing in a timeline or in a map that I know and understand." Whether that's money, social status, or spiritual development.
Seeking to find right now
The thing with spiritual development is this: I've been saying for several years, in contrast to what is perhaps the more conventional teaching, that seeking is not simply "the problem." There's a lot of conversation about the seeker being the problem, but I take it in a more refined direction. For me, there is something that seeks, and while that's there, it needs to be harnessed. There needs to be a wisdom that is learned.
For example, you've learned that if you seek money, it is ultimately very dissatisfying. It's not going to get you that deep, true fulfillment. That can be learned through the process. With spiritual work it's similar: getting more and more experiences is going to ultimately be dissatisfying. But if you go through that, it starts to become more refined.
What I say is in line with the Gospel of Thomas, where Jesus says, "Those who seek, do not stop seeking until you find." He's not saying don't seek, or that seeking is wrong. Keep seeking, and don't stop until you find. And he says, "When you find, you will be troubled, and then you will reign," or "you will enter the kingdom," depending on the translation.
Now, if you're trying to find in experiences, that's not where it is. If you're trying to find something tomorrow, or in the next minute, or in the next five seconds, that's not where it is. When you're remembering yesterday and looking at this experience right now, you're trying to get, in the next second, to something like yesterday. That's seeking in time, and it is ultimately going to be dissatisfying. It's going to fail because you're seeking in thought. The only place time exists is in thought. Tomorrow, what's going to happen in five seconds: these exist only in imagination.
Yeah, it's really clear.
So, to wrap that up: seek. Let's seek to find right now, what is now. And be careful with time. Be careful with anything that's in the next second, in the next five seconds. Wanting the experience to change is seeking in the only place change appears to occur: the notion of time. That's why I asked you, what did you see yesterday that is true right now, without relying on memory?