Two Sides of the Same Coin
Dos Caras de la Misma Moneda
A question about the witnessing stage and how it relates to the path of ending suffering, exploring the differences and convergence between Advaita and Buddhist approaches.
Two Sides of the Same Coin
A question about the witnessing stage and how it relates to the path of ending suffering, exploring the differences and convergence between Advaita and Buddhist approaches.
So that first movement correlates, for me, with what some teachers call the witnessing stage. I think that's what Nisargadatta was talking about: basically that separation from thoughts, seeing thoughts as the overlay. And then you can see what's actually happening, the suffering, and what's causing it.
I don't correlate those two. They're not necessarily separate things, but I don't equate them. The witness is a technique. Neti neti is a process, a technique of self-inquiry. It is the Hindu Advaita technique, which is different from the Buddhist technique, and it brings you to one side of a coin. Buddhism brings you to the other side.
The Advaita approach and its residue
From Advaita, from neti neti, the witness is seeing that what I am cannot be anything that I'm experiencing. But it still leaves a subtle thought, which is the witness itself. Buddhism brings about a different, opposite direction: not using a witness, but deconstructing experience directly. In thought, there is no self. Buddhists will not speak of an observer or a witness. This is actually why Advaita and Buddhism have been at odds for thousands of years. At the root, there is a disagreement about whether there is or is not a self.
Two sides of the same coin
But to me, they are simply techniques that, in language, need to point in a direction toward the end. You come to that end, and in words it is always going to be a polarity. That's why I say it's two sides of the same coin. There is a self, but it's Brahman. There is no self. Form is emptiness; emptiness is form. Nothing and everything. Once that duality is seen through, I think it becomes very clear that they are both pointing to the same thing. So the witness is just a technique.
I think what I meant by the witness is something different. I don't know what to call it, but it's the seeing that comes. In my experience it's not a technique; I had no idea about it. It's just the seeing of the separation between the overlay and the experience. You start to see the overlay, and that's when a witness arises. It's that separation we discussed at the beginning.
What you're describing is still a technique, because it's a process that happens through a method, whether intentional or not. The method you've been following is a kind of neti neti: "I am not these thoughts." By seeing that you are not those thoughts, there is a moving away from a type of thinking and a disidentification from it, through a process of identifying with something else, which is the witness. That is still an identification, but it is a useful, valid technique.
It's a wider identification, so to speak.
The subtle location of the witness
You could almost say it's either everything or nothing, but it will be "not thoughts as I knew them." That's why I call it a subtle thought, because it's like a point in infinite space that is no thought, no sensation: witnessing, knowing, experiencing all. But still somehow located, still separate in a very subtle way.
It's still duality.
In a very subtle way, still located as separate. But when that becomes really clear, then the witness itself can be observed. The sense of the witness, the sense of the observer, can be seen as not there either.
Beyond "I am consciousness"
I see a lot of people in the Advaita and nonduality circles get stuck in that first stage: the "I am consciousness" identification, and the separation from everything else that arises.
Yes, that's exactly it. It is a profound duality.
Yes, but I think it's still the first step away from "I am the little me, the little person." At least you're bigger than that small "I." And then it's seen that really it's everything. Everything is consciousness, is life.
Thank you. A pleasure to be with you all.