The Root of Holding On
La raíz del aferrarse
A student describes an energetic process centered in the gut, seemingly approaching the root of separation. The teacher explores the difference between energetic processes and the deeper recognition that is already here, pointing to a hidden choice at the core of identification.
The Root of Holding On
A student describes an energetic process centered in the gut, seemingly approaching the root of separation. The teacher explores the difference between energetic processes and the deeper recognition that is already here, pointing to a hidden choice at the core of identification.
It appears to be a big energetic zone from an existential fear perspective. The whole awakening, the whole energetics, everything coming alive seems to be centered around the gut at the moment. There was a mind awakening and a heart awakening, and it seems to be dropping more toward the gut. It's getting almost to the root of separation.
The process of energetic shifts is always an aftereffect of something. We tend to interpret it as a process that's leading us somewhere, and in a sense it is, but the part that needs to be really adjusted is the interpretation.
Energetics as aftereffect
There is a natural tendency for the mind to interpret things shifting in the body and energetics as if they are the awakening that's going to lead somewhere. We can think of it as integration, and that seems to hit a nice middle ground, because integration also gives the sense of "once it's integrated, then something different will be there." That's partly true. When there is integration, things settle in the body and the mind, and that is nice. Not only does it normally feel better, but there are also new capabilities, new understandings, a deeper wisdom that can be lived. But the energetics are often a consequence of a shift that has already happened.
Staying clear there is often the best path through the energetic process. We tend to get involved in the journey of the experience and become attached to an outcome, to the sense that the process is going to lead to something. And it does, which is why it's tricky. But in the deepest sense, what we're looking for is already here, before the energetic process integrates or completes. It doesn't really have to integrate or complete. We could see it as waves that are never-ending, a life force that never stops.
The progression from mind to heart to gut
The progression of mind, heart, gut is very traditional. We disidentify first from thought. That leads us to heart and body. And at the root of the identification with body is the fear of death. That's just what you were describing. The fear of death only exists as a thought, as a belief. It exists as a mental-emotional reaction to a belief system: "I am something that ends."
One way to put some gentleness into the energetic process, to help it be smoother (and sometimes it will just be rough because it is), is to look at the belief in being something that can end. That is absolutely, totally only a belief, and it can only exist as a belief. But it feels real. When we are attached, when a belief becomes a reality, when it's seen as reality rather than a thought, that's a crucial distinction. If I perceive reality and there is a thought system appearing, and that thought system is taken to be true, then the reality perceived through it is the reality I think is real and experience as real. Perception is filtered through the belief system. So if the belief system is "I am something that ends," then everything perceived will be filtered through that and interpreted through that.
Self-inquiry at the root
Self-inquiry goes at the root of this. It is simply looking at: what is that which I call "I"? Who am I? We only need to get to a point where there's doubt. "I can't really know what I am. I see the thoughts of myself about myself, that which I call 'I,' and I see it as a thought. It seems like I am a body, but then it doesn't." As all of this becomes, in a sense, confusing, not clear, not defined, a new possibility, a deeper truth becomes possible.
The energetic process is just waves happening around this. We can let the waves do what they do. They do things best when we are not involved and not attached. There is naturally a tendency toward the sense of "if I can aid this, if I can allow this, if I can assist this for the process to finally get me to that resting place where freedom is integrated." That's a trap. It's not a big trap; it's a normal trap. But to see that the energetic process is a consequence of something that's already happened, something that's already here, and that nothing we can do really makes it better; in fact, anything we try to do just adds friction.
This can be known, understood, and seen clearly. Or it could be a trusting, a kind of borrowed trust coming from my words. Trust that, possibly, if it's not clear or obvious to you, it's just a consequence of a shift that has already happened. Wherever it goes isn't the important thing. Just keep recognizing: it's already here.
Yeah, absolutely. I think this is a confirmation of what's been happening in the last few days: the exhausting of the seeker energy, that seeking energy which tries to still hold on to the story that something better is coming. Because the energetics become really loud at times, the selfing happens because of that loudness, and in that selfing the interpretation of what's happening is also there, and the old beliefs come back that this is happening for some reason, toward some end goal.
The attachment beneath the process
Look at the process you're describing, the beliefs and the energies. I'm wondering what you notice if you look at the attachment to that. What's in it for you in the seeking? To see where there actually is still a personal, deep wanting for something to be a certain way.
The story, and there's a recognition that this is just a story, is that there is going to be relief. When this lens of separation comes off, it feels in that moment uncomfortable. It feels like something is not at home.
What if you turn that around? That's true, that's real. But what if also, when the sense of separation comes, there's a benefit? To really get close and intimate with that, to really investigate, not as a thought process, but to taste it. What is it? Can I allow myself to admit to myself? There's a vulnerability where: "Yes, there's something here that I still want, and the separation is giving me that."
What comes up is safety. It's clearly been seen many times that that's not really true.
It's real. You have seen it, and I trust that. And yet there's still something there.
Yeah. Even if I've seen it, even if I've seen Santa Claus isn't real, I'm still going to wait for the presents by the chimney. This is very much at the energetic level. Before, it was at the story level. There is some sense of safety in separation. The gut is telling me that as long as this doesn't drop fully in, it's safe.
The loop of almost-seeing
Yes, and I would challenge that. It's a bit of a loop. What you just said is partly true, but it's not fully true, not the total truth, and that's what keeps the loop going.
I talk about something I call inner integrity, which doesn't have to do with ethics in life. It's about: can I really admit to myself exactly what my experience is? This is an infinite process of deepening. This is where the path is: to see more deeply, more subtly, what you just mentioned about the energetic process that is needed. I'm pointing to another twist of seeing, where there's still something deeper. It's not at the level of story or belief, because that's been seen. Those are stories, those are beliefs. There is a knowing that there's an energetic process of holding, of conditioning and shifting. But there's something even deeper: "I'm still wanting this. I'm still holding on to it. Even though I know this isn't ultimately the way or what I want, I'm still holding on to security or safety in this way."
That's where I'm pointing. What is that, exactly? How is it? Why? Not to put it on "well, there's some energetic process that's needed," because that is true, but that's not all of it.
Do you mean like giving it a voice?
No, it's not about putting it into words. It's about seeing it in your experience. Seeing the energetics of the desire that's coming from a choice. It's almost as if: "I know this is what I need to let go of, but I'm not going to." There's an energetic desire there, and it's really subtle and very deep.
And it is "I, I, I." Then it can be put a little to the side or hidden, and the focus becomes seeing through the beliefs and the energetic process. But there is still, somewhat hidden behind all of that, the holding on.
Yeah, that's what it feels like.
The tight fist
It's like holding on for safety no matter what, while working on dissolving the attachment to safety over here in the energetics and the beliefs. But over here, holding on: "I'm not going to let go. Till death comes, it's the last thing I'll let go of." I'm putting words to something like how my own experience was, but it could be different for you. I'm talking about a core structure. It's the nature and structure of attachment and identification.
What would that look like practically? Just sitting with the energetics of it and seeing what comes up? Something came up, because as I was speaking, you were nodding, affirming. What is that? That's it: seeing whatever you recognized, and then looking closer.
I have access to that. I can feel it in my gut. It's almost like: "No, I'm not going away."
Then don't discard it as merely an energetic gut thing. I'm not saying that's not happening; it is. But don't assume it's all of it, because then you place both the cause and the solution outside yourself. It's out there in the gut. It's over there in the thing that's "not me."
That is happening. There is something in the energetics, in the body and the gut. But if it's seen as the totality of the process, then it becomes "it's not up to me." And this is where non-duality applies: it's both. It's not up to me, and it is up to me. Every statement has to be said with its opposite for non-duality to be complete.
The mind is going to have subtle ways of keeping this separation. For example: "I'm seeing everything, and now there's a process in the gut. What else can I do?" But there's already a separation in that framing. What I'm saying is: you are deciding. You are choosing that.
Yeah, I see that.
The hidden sense of self
So, back to that really subtle, hidden, background sense of self that is sneaky, that says: "Yes, me. I hear. And I'm holding on till the end of time, and I won't let go." That's a choice. It's not an energetic process happening outside your control.
When that is seen, it's like: "Oh, I'm really putting energy into holding on here." Then it can be seen as: "Oh, I was the one with a tight fist." Not separating it as "this is what's happening over there." No. The one who says "this is what's happening over there" is the one choosing to hold on.
It's literally like this: we start doing this when we're two or three years old, and once we're twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, this is the reality of our experience. It's uncomfortable. There's soreness. It's difficult to live life like this. Then we start to pay attention and see: "Oh, there's tension. There's some contraction." We try to let go. There are moments where it opens up, an amazing day, some energetic shift, and then back to the tightness. And there's this whole involvement in the process: "Now it happened, now it went back. Now it happened, now it went back." This is seeking, if there isn't any real change. The changing, the moving, is what keeps the seeking going.
What can be seen is: I was doing that all along.
Why the fist metaphor works for me is that it can be seen as objectively external. "It's happening. It's my mind. It's my body. It's the energetics. There's something I can do that might affect it, but it's also out of my control." If you've been doing this for twenty years, it's hard to undo because the muscles are set, and literally there are processes in the body that are deeply conditioned. But ultimately, at the deepest place, the truest, deepest reality, that's identification. And the solution is: it was me all along. I was choosing that all along.
It was me all along
These are just words, because ultimately, in that recognition, it can be seen that everything said around "there is no one" makes sense, because what I thought I was, was that tension. I believed I was looking from that place that is tight and localized, and there was this whole perspective. Then all the words of "this is what happened to me," all the words of non-duality and all of that, made so much sense. But only after that was seen.
And then I could do it again: the tensing, the identifying. All of that could be elicited. But it was no longer fundamentally real, because I could not forget that it was me all along, or that there was something prior to all of it. It's hard to put into words, but the final phrase for me is: the ultimate responsibility.
The trap of "there is no one"
This flies in the face of more contemporary teachings, especially the non-duality of the last couple of decades, because there has been an extreme highlighting of the idea that there is no one doing anything, no one who can do anything. That is true. But then those words become a belief. Those words are powerful as a counter to the massive social agreement that there is someone and it's all about "me" doing it. In spirituality, "it's all about me doing, and it's going to happen to me." All of that needs to be countered, and that's why the teachings today are very valuable and powerful. But if that becomes, for the groups who are deeply into it, another belief system, it becomes its own trap.
Yeah, I hear you. You need some level of volition, some level of illusory doership, to undo itself. What came to me, probably because of being a little more exposed to Western religion, is: "My will is thy will." And that's a recognition.
Before that recognition happened to me, I interpreted those words as a prayer or an offering: "For my will to be thy will, so that I can listen to your will and be in good spiritual standing." I was never religious, but as I got into spirituality, certain Western spiritual teachings became something I resonated with. That was one of them. There was a bit of a prayer for my will to be divine will.
And what happened was the recognition that there is no personal will. There was a belief that I am choosing, that I am the origin of what comes from me, that what I do emerges and originates in this person I take myself to be. That was a really core belief. What was seen is that it was absolutely, one hundred percent, completely illusory and not true or real. So what came was: "My will is thy will." That which I thought was my will is not my will. That which I thought was the origin of this person is not this person; it is the nameless.
Simultaneously, there was the understanding and the seeing that this choosing (which I can also call "I," but not the personal self) was choosing to believe, to pretend, to struggle, to suffer. It was a completely free, total, absolute choice. The devouring and savoring of suffering as if it were the last meal. Completely enjoying and loving it. While the nature of suffering required the experience of "I don't want this" and "this is the worst thing ever." The more that was the experience, the more I could create the sense of having the worst experience ever, the more suffering there was, the more delicious savoring of suffering was known. Not in masochism, but in true delight, until there was a moment: "Okay, that's it. Too much. That's enough."
The belief that energetics will deliver freedom
I'm talking about my experience, but I'm pointing to this: there is a deep freedom and a deep choice, and the recognition of that is the freedom itself.
I resonate with the energetic process because I was very involved in it. My own process was very energetic, so I got very involved in the belief system that there was just more energetic process needed. I would do practices, and when energetic things happened, I was deeply involved. It took me a long time to see it was just this. I thought it was an involuntary process that I could at most nudge in one direction or the other, and that all that needed to happen was for the energetic process to finally complete.
That's exactly where I am.
And that's a belief. Because the true representation of what this points to requires no energetic process at all. In fact, it can happen and the energetic process will continue. The only difference between before and after is that the energetic process happens; before, you think it's all that needs to happen, and you're very involved and attached and addicted (at least I was) to the whole process. And then afterwards it's just: more energetic process. That's it.
That's why I'm pointing for you to allow that, and I think it's going great from what I hear. There's a deeper seeing that's possible, where the energetic process is just part of the appearances. The pointing that what you're looking for is already here is absolutely true, and it has absolutely zero requirement of any energetic process. Even contemplating that possibility, if you truly contemplate it, might be challenging for you. You will start to see the attachment: "No, no, but I want my energetic process. I want this to go somewhere. I want my safety in this."
No, I think I'm done with the energetics. I've had so many energetics for the last twenty years. I've been over it for a while. But there is still a belief that this energetic process is the one that's going to deliver the release, release this contraction, which is then going to bring the relief.
Exactly. That's exactly it. And that's a belief, and it's absolutely false. That's what's keeping it going.
But the energetics will keep going, right?
Yes, energetics will keep going. But don't think the belief is happening to you. That's part of the story.
Yeah, there's this selfing happening in the belief itself.
The belief is not happening to you. It's not like a virus you're stuck with and can't get away from. This is the belief. What I'm pointing to is that what you're looking for is here and requires no energetic process. There's a part of you saying, "No, I have my belief, I want the energetic process to deliver." And what it would require for you to see through that is to face the belief in the end of you. That's the safety.
Facing the end of what you think you are
To see what I'm pointing to, which is already here, it can only be seen when you stop believing in a separate self. But the only way to stop believing in the separate self will be experienced as the ending of self. The body-mind will know it as the ending of what I think I am. It's the ending of a belief. It's a belief becoming known as a thought and a belief. That which is "I" becoming known as a thought. But experientially, it's like walking to the end of what I am, approaching the end of what I am.
Yeah, and in my case, the belief is that that ending lies in the energetics. But it's not.
It's the other way around. When that belief drops, the energetic gets triggered.
Cool. I'll stick with that. Thank you so much.
You're welcome.
The teaching on choice
I just wanted to say thank you for touching on the choice. I think you've been one of my first teachers who brought this up and talked about it that way, because there's been so much belief pounded into me that there's no choice, there's nothing you can do, there's no one who can do anything. Just sit and relax and wait for grace to come. That's how my belief formed.
So the first time, in one of my first few calls, when you spoke about choice, I was like: "Whoa." And when you said "you are the grace," that just really hit me hard.
I really honor and credit a particular teacher for this teaching. But please, continue.
Just really, thank you for that conversation. It's very helpful to see it just a bit differently, to turn it around a bit.
That's the thing. The mind is so good at turning any spiritual teaching, even really good ones, into another little sneaky trap, a playful sneaky trap.
It's like all those landing places: "Oh gosh, I've landed. That's more comfortable now."
Could you speak a little bit more? You spoke a lot about choice, and I guess my frustration is: why does this keep happening, when you already see that something is not true and you still get sucked in?
Why you still get sucked in
Because you still believe in it at some level. There's something you're still believing. The mind is complex. The narratives are complex. You can look at a narrative and say, "Yeah, no, that's not true," but there's a part of it that you still believe.
Like you said, there's some sweetness in it, almost. It's just so crazy. I guess maybe it's just the experimentation, the self-exploration that it is doing.
There's a way of experiencing that can only be experienced when fully identified. Let's call it a black-and-white thing. (There is a way to talk about it as more gradual, but let's say you're identified or not.) There is not only a way of experiencing, but experiences that are only possible when identified. And to that which we are, all experiences are tasty. They are all infinite possibilities and creations. That which we are wants to know experience. It is freely creating, experiencing, enjoying. And by "enjoying" I mean at a deep level. There is really not a caring, at that level, whether there is suffering or not, whether there is identification or not. In fact, there is a caring in the sense of: "I do want to know the experience of suffering. I do want to know the experience of identification. I do want to explore all of the ins and outs and journeys of body, mind, human, non-human, flavors and palettes of experiencing through the belief in separation that are only possible from a separate perspective." And that is chosen freely, and it is unchosen freely.
Savoring the depths
What, if anything, constitutes a path or method or process is hard to describe. But there is something to be said about fully allowing that as a way to satisfy it. Not satisfying some crazy masochistic entity that is doing this to us. It's: I wanted to know the depth of the darkness of spiritual struggle that this life could experience. I wanted to know the intensity and depth of heartbreak, desperation, fear, and loneliness that could be experienced in this way, in this life, with these people, in this beautiful creation. And so on, until: that's enough.
Then there is still life, still challenges, still pain, still body-mind struggle, still being alive. But something at a very deep place is different. There isn't that darkness, that desperation and separation and fear. That was really present and really deep, but to me it was known as a choice.
Jumping without readiness
We discussed before about the readiness, like jumping off the cliff. You jump, you're ready, but it's not really readiness. You just jump.
That's similar to this narrative of something being outside of me. "There's a process that still needs to happen, an energetic process, or a maturity process. When I'm ready, I will be able to jump." I was using the experience I know well from jumping off cliffs into a lake. You never feel ready, because you will not feel ready. You would only ever jump feeling completely unready. You could stand there for thirty minutes waiting to feel ready, and you will not feel ready. And then you just jump, feeling completely like: "What the hell am I doing?"
But there's still some impulse that happens.
Yes, that impulse is a free choice. It's a free choice coming from something prior to the body-mind, or the mind that is trying to choose and be ready and waiting for readiness. At some point, something can step out of that and choose freely. Then the body follows. The body-mind is the mechanism that simply obeys, regardless of whether there is fear and readiness or not.
It's crazy how it happens, almost some kind of explosive moment. One second ago you're thinking "there's no way I'm doing it," and then boom, it's done.
It's explosive because it's an instantaneous choice. And that choice, if you look at it, comes from nowhere. You can't say it came from me, nor can you say it came from outside me. You can't localize it and own it, nor can you make it an external thing. If you look really closely, it defies both definitions. The mind can interpret it as "I made the choice." It can assign it to some other entity. But that's only thought. The choice is literally out of nowhere, from no location, no subject, no object. It's just: boom. Creation, creating. Totally free.
And it's the same even with unprepared speaking. You sit and say, "No, I don't have anything," and then words just come.
In fact, what I'm talking about is literally this moment, all of it, all the time.
The finger exercise
Is it helpful to look at certain parts of it, to see more clearly? When there is a choice, an exercise could be to move a finger, move it back and forth. That's the experiment. You can use it as a meditation. Sit for thirty minutes, set a timer, and move your finger back and forth. Really look at when it moves. The choice: where did it come from? Really contemplate, really look, as if you're genuinely trying to see where the choice originates. The more you look at that, you'll see that a choice is mind-boggling. It's just creation happening.
I was actually spontaneously experiencing something like that. I was telling you about those moments where bliss comes over me. The body doesn't move. There's no movement. But the mind is saying: "Move, move, you have to go, come on, why are you just sitting there." And there's no movement. There's a sense that the mind cannot make the body move. And then, out of the blue, it just happens.
That's a bit of a story, because what's really happening is: there's the choice not to move. Then there's a choice to create thoughts and entertain thoughts about trying to move. Then there's a choice to entertain thoughts that the mind can't do anything, while at the same time choosing not to move.
Hmm. I didn't feel like there was choice. It was just surrendering to "this feels good."
But you're choosing not to move.
Yeah, okay. But then the movement just happens, like poof. The mind goes quiet.
Neither me nor not me
Suddenly you chose to move. This is where I have to balance, going back and forth with where the mind is landing. If you tend to think you are choosing, I have to dismantle that. If you tend to think choice is coming from somewhere outside of you, not you, I have to challenge that. Until neither of those positions is true and you see clearly that they're not, you're left with truth. Not because of words, but for you to see: the choice cannot be put into words. The ultimate origin of the choice cannot be located.
When I say "you are choosing," I'm simply challenging what I intuit is a belief that the choice is outside of you. If it were the reverse, if you were bringing a lot of "I'm choosing" energy, I would challenge that, which is what a lot of teachers are doing today, because so many people come with the choice orientation. They're trying to dismantle it. But then that dismantling becomes a belief system.
To be safe, you're just taking away all the landing spots. Which can be frustrating, but it's also great.
That's why you keep coming back. You're presenting it as: "The choice to move isn't happening. I can't do anything about it. There are thoughts trying to make me move, but I can see through the thoughts that I can't." But you're choosing not to move. Then you say, "But suddenly I move." Yes: suddenly you chose to move. The perspective you're presenting is as if the choice came from another entity, from somewhere else. That's objectifying creation, making it separate. And it's not separate.
It's very sneaky.
It is "I." It is this. But "I" in this context is everything. This moment is creation, all of it, freely creating, freely choosing, everything, all the time. And you can't say "not me" or "me" absolutely. You can't say it's not me, and you can't say it's all me, because then that has a subtle smell of the personal. It's not the personal self. And it's not a divine entity outside either.